梅罗十载球迷之幸伟大王座无人能继
最近十年仅C罗（554）与梅西（579）进球数超400
#以下评论皆来自reddit新闻背景：最近十年间，梅西总共打进579球，其中为巴塞罗那攻入522球、为阿根廷队攻入57球；与此同时，C罗总共打进554球，其中为皇家马德里攻入437球、为尤文攻入40球、为葡萄牙队攻入77球。除梅罗二人外，没有任何球员在近十年进球超过400球。[–]xkacnap 4923 points 21 hours ago Averaging an insane 55.4 and 57.9 goals per year in span of ten freaking years. That’s ridiculous. We really have been spoiled with these two.在这十年里，这两人每年平均分别能疯狂输出55.4球和57.9球。不可思议。一直以来能欣赏他俩的表演真是太有幸了。[–]【尤文图斯】MontaukWanderer 2967 points 20 hours ago* Football snobs can argue for the classical names all they want, but Messi and Ronaldo will go down in history as No. 1 & 2 greatest of all time. It’s just a matter of how you would distribute those two rankings.Their individual records alone speak for themselves.懂球帝们大可为经典时期的球星辩护，但梅西和C罗将会成为足球史上最伟大的第一和第二名。这只是你想把谁放在更前面的问题。他们的个人记录本身就说明了一切。[–]【巴萨】ElAutistaDeHamelin 1197 points 20 hours ago* It also depends on what makes "the greatest" for you. Some people might prioritize talent over longevity and that's when players like Maradona are better than Cristiano. On the other hand some people may take into account mainly the player's peak, so names like Ronaldinho and Ronaldo Nazário are up there. Others, the impact they had in their time and how they changed football (Pelé shows up), etc.If you put longevity as the main priority, then they'd both be in the top 3, but usually people take into account a bit of everything so it's understandable most top 5 contain Maradona, Pelé, Cruyff, etc.However, in my opinion, stats should never play a huge part in these rankings.这也取决于你对“最伟大”的定义。有人也许会认为天赋比持久性更重要，以此而言的话那么马拉多纳比C罗更好。另一方面，有人可能只把球员的巅峰期纳入考量，所以像小罗与大罗也会被提及。还有一些其他因素，譬如球员在彼时的影响力、以及他们是如何改变足球运动的（比如贝利），等等。如果你把职业生涯长度作为首要考虑的因素，那么他们都能位列三甲，但是人们往往会考虑所有的因素，所以最容易理解的历史前五包括马拉多纳、贝利、克鲁伊夫等等。然而，在我看来，统计数据在这样的排名中并不应该起到决定性作用。[–]【阿森纳】byronfry95 985 points 19 hours ago Stats shouldn’t play a huge part unless those stats are just outright fucking absurd. The amount of talent both of these players possess is unbelievable, they’ve just both managed to keep that talent incredibly consistent and span it out over large periods of time. You say cristiano doesn’t possess as much talent as Maradona, R9 or Ronaldinho which may be true but his talent is far off enough that even if you say his talent is 2nd to all of them his athleticism and genetic make up is leaps and bounds ahead of theirs and his ability and intelligence to be able to keep his career going is also miles ahead not to mention his incredible work ethic. All of these things have to be taken into consideration together and that’s what makes him the 2nd greatest of all time behind Messi who’s a freak because he possesses more talent than anyone and also incredible amount of work ethic and perseverance to extend his career for so long数据的作用确实不是决定性的，除非它们真的太过耀眼。梅罗二人拥有的天赋令人难以置信，他们也都将各自的天赋水平不可思议地稳定保持了十年之久。你说C罗不像马拉多纳、大罗或者小罗那样天才横溢，你可能是对的，但他的才华也足够优秀，即便你说他的天赋次于上述众人，他运动能力和基因结构也远超他们，他保持职业生涯延续的能力和智慧也远超他们，更不用提他难以置信的敬业精神。所以这些要素都应该被综合考量，这也是他何以成为有史以来仅次于梅西以外第二伟大球员的原因，毕竟梅西根本就是超人类，他具备比任何人都多的天赋，也同样具备难以置信的敬业精神与毅力来延长自己的足球生涯。[–]【热刺】AssFingerFuck3000 52 points 17 hours ago Once I have kids I'll be able to tell them I've seen those two monsters play. I might even squeeze in a story about how Ronaldo played for Spurs for a while and scored 100 goals for us, it's still a better and more believable lie than Santa let's be fair要是我有了孩子，我就能告诉他们我曾经目睹过那两个怪物踢球。我甚至还可以在故事里穿插一段C罗为热刺短暂效力并打进100球的外传，说实话，这个谎言总比圣诞老人的存在听起来更棒更可信。
[–]【不莱梅】KyloRen___ 966 points 21 hours ago
Who scored 300 or more?
有哪些球员是进球300 的呢？
[–]【曼联】Talezeusz 1535 points 21 hours ago*
Suarez, Cavani, Zlatan, Lewandowski, Aguero
edit: Neymar too, didn't thought he banged over 100 in Santos
苏亚雷斯、卡瓦尼、伊布、莱万、阿圭罗
编辑：还有内马尔，我没想到他在桑托斯还轰进了100个
[–]【葡萄牙】WorkHappens 469 points 20 hours ago
That's really... unsurprising. Benzema didn't though?
还真是…平平无奇。没有本泽马？
[–]【切尔西】HaMx_Platypus 283 points 18 hours ago
cavanis underrated. lewa, aguero, zlatan, suarez are considered best strikers of the decade (as they should be) but cavani is right there in terms of stats atleast
卡瓦尼被低估了。莱万、阿圭罗、伊布、苏亚雷斯都被看作是十年来最好的前锋（他们也应该是），但至少从统计数据来说，卡瓦尼应该榜上有名。
[–]【图卢兹】THZHDY 326 points 20 hours ago
he's never been a top top goalscorer, his strengths are different, he only scored 20 goals in the league in 3 seasons out of 10 at RM, if my math is correct he has 248 goals since 2010
他（本泽马）从来都不是最顶级的得分手，他的长处有所不同，他效力皇马的10个赛季里只有3个赛季进球超过20个，如果我没算错的话，自2010年以来他总共打进248个球。
[–]【佛蒙特电压】therealrico 144 points 18 hours ago
I think he would have been a top goal scorer had he not played with Ronaldo. When RM bought him he was an established Ligue 1 scorer with 30 goals total and the following season scored 17 league goals. Having a hard time finding all goals scored for that year. He was also only 19-20 those years.
Karim I think could have been more prolific but was ok being the provider to Ronaldo.
我觉得吧，如果本泽马没有跟C罗共事的话，他会成为一名顶级射手的。当皇马签下他时，他已经是闻名法甲、总计打入30球的得分好手，并且在接下来的赛季里他又攻入17个联赛进球。要找齐他那一年所有的进球实在很难。他那会儿也就19、20岁。
我认为本泽马本来可以成为高产射手，不过作为C罗的僚机也是很不错的。
[–]f1_manu 777 points 20 hours ago
I remember the times when a good striker was the one who could score 20 goals per season. 20. These guys have been doing nearly 3x that year in, year out. Godly
我还记得早年间，一名优秀的前锋一个赛季也就打进20多个球。20多个而已。如今这哥俩的进球数已经接近当年的3倍了，而且还年复一年这么踢。天了噜。
[–]【巴黎圣日耳曼】el_walou 560 points 20 hours ago
I remember. It all changed around 2008/2009.
Etoo had a killer season at 30 goals.
Then Messi/Ronaldo took this shit to the next level.
BUT we need to remember that football changed. There are way more goals now in every leagues.
我记得。就是在2008/2009年，事情起了变化。
埃托奥打出了一个30 球的杀戮赛季。
随后，梅西和C罗把这一切提升到了新的高度。
但是，我们必须记住足球运动已经改变了。如今各大联赛的进球数远比以往更多。
[–]RipGenji7 250 points 20 hours ago
There's always been freaks though (e.g. R9, Van Basten etc.). A striker who scores 20 goals a season in a top league is still a good striker nowadays.
时代浪潮中总是会涌现出一些惊世奇人（例如大罗、范巴斯滕等等）。就当下而论，在顶级联赛中单赛季斩获20 进球的前锋仍然称得上优秀前锋。
[–]【切尔西】HaMx_Platypus 49 points 18 hours ago
what do you mean? in PL 20 goals a season is still very good. messi and ronaldo in la liga and lewa in bundes are just outliers
层主你啥意思啊？在英超，一个赛季下来能进20多个球依然很棒的。梅西和C罗在西甲、莱万在德甲那种表现，我们称之为异人族好吧。
[–]【FIFA】black_fire 1719 points 21 hours ago
My friend made this comparison the other day which really opened my eyes. Gonna paraphrase
If there was a player in your local Sunday league who scored 20 goals over the span of 30ish matches, you'd be pretty fucking wary of them because they're probably the best player of the league.
Now if a player racked up 50 goals in a season in my league, you'd know they're way too good for this level, you'd say they should be playing at least 2 levels higher, and their scoring record would normalize to like 15-18 goals a season. Still very good.
But you have CR7 and Messi, players who scored 50 goals a season at the highest league levels in the world. In order to "normalize" their scoring rates to 20ish a season, they'd have to be playing in a hypothetical league that's at least two levels higher than the highest in the world.
So like a "Champions of Champions of Champion's League" of some sort. How fucking ridiculous.
前几天，我朋友做了如下的一个比较，让我大开眼界。转述在此：
如果你当地的周日联赛（面向青少年和业余球队的社区级联赛）里有一名球员，在30余场比赛中打入20球，那这样的球员就该引起你的注意，因为他们有可能是联赛最佳球员。
现在，如果一名球员在我身处的联赛中一个赛季高产50多个球，你会清楚他们相较于联赛水平来说已经强出太多了，你会说他们应该在至少两个级别以上的联赛踢球才对，这样一来他们的进球记录会趋于正常，大概单赛季15-18球。也还是不错的。
但是，C罗和梅西出现了，他们是世界上最高级别联赛中的球员，一个赛季进50多个球。为了让他们的进球率“趋于正常”变为单赛季20球左右，那他们就得在一个假设的联赛中踢球，这个联赛比目前世界上最高级别的联赛还要再高至少两个级别。
所以，就类似“冠军中的冠军中的冠军联赛”之类的赛事。太特娘的荒诞了。
[–]xsconfused 632 points 20 hours ago
Interesting. Also, It's even more ridiculous that on top of 50 goals a season, one of them competes with the best playmakers in assist stats as well.
有趣。而且更荒诞的是，在单赛季打进50球的基础上，其中一个人和最佳组织球员在助攻数据方面也有的一拼。
[–]【海牙足球俱乐部】AlfaQQQ 284 points 18 hours ago
Ronaldo also rakes up a surprising amount of assists. Not as much as Messi, but he'd be top 5 for the decade, I'd bet.
C罗同样刷了数量惊人的助攻。没有梅西那么多，但我敢打赌他能进十年助攻榜的前五。
[–]BeckhamsRightPeg 1285 points 21 hours ago
The fact ronaldo has more goals than games for madrid is crazy
C罗在皇马的进球数比出场次数还多，太疯狂了
[–]【曼联】ashu54 1408 points 20 hours ago
Here's a better fact:
Ronaldo has more UCL goals than Ramos has UCL appearances.
还有个更棒的知识点：
C罗的欧冠进球数比拉莫斯的欧冠登场数还多。
[–【波尔图】]nepia 553 points 20 hours ago
That stat and the one that has more goals in the CL than most clubs always baffles me.
那些数据，以及他一个人比大部分俱乐部在欧冠里的进球数还多的事实，总是让我一脸懵逼。
[–]【曼联】ashu54 477 points 20 hours ago*
He has won same number of UCLs as barca has in their entire history.. And he has been top scorer in all 5 of them.
Ronaldo might be inconsistent (Edit: I meant over the course of a season as he often starts slow and picks up real steam after December) , but for me he's the ultimate big game player. If my team's in trouble, I'd bet on Cristiano to show up (like vs Wolfsburg). IMO he's the GOAT. (others might disagree)
他举起的欧冠奖杯数量和巴萨整个俱乐部历史上赢得的欧冠奖杯数量一样…而且他在这五季欧冠联赛中都荣获最佳射手。
C罗的状态也许不是那么始终如一（编辑：我的意思是在一整个赛季里，他通常起步较慢然后一过12月份就开始真正加速），但对我来说他就是终极球员。如果我的主队陷入麻烦，我赌C罗会挺身而出（就像他对狼堡时那样）。依我之见，他就是历史最佳球员。（其他人也许不同意这一点）
[–]New2Thrifting 507 points 20 hours ago
(others might disagree)
Understatement of the century.
（其他人也许不同意这一点）
本世纪最客气的说法
[–]Kobz77 112 points 21 hours ago
Truly phenomenal player. 400 goals in 9 years is mind boggling. I truly appreciate what Ronaldo and messi have been able to bring to football.
When both retire (especially Cris for me), there will be alot of pretenders coming for their throne, but no one will reach these levels of consistency, dedication and commitment. This generation of football fans dont know how blessed they truly are to enjoy these guys.
他们都是真正现象级的球员。9年间打进400多球简直令人难以想象。我真的很欣赏C罗与梅西为足球运动带来的这一切。
当他俩都退役（于我而言尤其是C罗），会有许多伪装者来争夺他们留下的王座，但是没有人会达到他们的稳定性、奉献力和投入度。这一代的球迷不明白他们可以尽情享受这两位球星的比赛是有多么幸运。
[–]【巴塞罗那】Zidlicky3 403 points 21 hours ago
lol here I'm adding 522 to 57 and 437 with 40 and 77 to see who has more, when they are written in title.
I think I'll take a nap now.
笑死我了，我还自个儿把522加上57，又把437加上40再加77，然后比谁进的多，明明标题里就有各自的总进球数。
我该去睡一会儿了。
[–]seamushoo4 127 points 21 hours ago
Don’t want to side here with anyone, the level of consistency of these two is just insane. 2 of the greatest, and becoming harder to argue that they arent full stop the two greatest of all time.
我不想偏向任何一方，他们俩的稳定性水平实在是太吓人了。两人都是最伟大的球员，而且越来越难以反驳他们就是截至目前史上最伟大的两名球员。
[–]【丹麦】Pek-Man 169 points 18 hours ago
Fucking insane that Messi both has the most goals and the most assists this decade!
我特么快疯了，梅西这十年里居然进球数和助攻数都是最多的！
[–]【巴萨】Matheusj99 78 points 16 hours ago
People are underrating this stat so damn much. This alone should rid you of any comparisons. Let alone if you have 4 CLs, 6 ballon dors and 6 golden boots.
人们都过于低估了这个数据。单这一项就能帮你从任何比较中脱颖而出。更别说你还有4个欧冠、6座金球和6支金靴。
[–]RyanTheDeem 79 points 16 hours ago
Too early for this stat, reckon Lingard might get a few on Boxing Day
这统计未免也搞得太早了吧，应该等到节礼日，看林加德能不能刷出个三筐五筐的
[–]【阿贾克斯】Nouri34ever[S] 252 points 20 hours ago
Who do you pick as topscorer of the 2020s? Mbappe?
RemindMe! 10 years
你们觉得谁会是下一个十年的得分王？姆巴佩？
10年后记得叫我来看结果
[–]【利物浦】bonjoviworstbandever 64 points 20 hours ago
Guido Burgstaller
吉多-布格施塔勒（沙尔克04球员）
[–]microMe1_2 227 points 20 hours ago
Good bet. Reasonable chance it's someone who hasn't broken through yet too.
押宝姆巴佩不错。也很有可能是某个还没捅破窗户纸的球员。
[–]【SK布兰恩】SnapeWasEvil 114 points 20 hours ago
Messi
梅西
[–]【巴萨】Tezemery 31 points 19 hours ago
Probably someone we haven't heard of yet.
可能是某个我们还没听说过的球员
[–]HacksawJimDGN 28 points 19 hours ago
Haland
Parrot
哈兰德
帕罗特
[–]scheme_milk 31 points 19 hours ago
Won't be surprised if Messi and Ronaldo would still rack enough goals to put them in the top 10 tbh.
如果梅西和C罗到那时仍能打进足够的进球从而排进前十的话，老实说我也不会惊讶的。
[–]Radinax 41 points 20 hours ago
Besides the obvious choice of Mbappe... I have no idea lol, there several candidates but none has shown to be monsters at scoring goals, perhaps Rashford? Abraham? Werner? Asensio (yeah yeah I believe in him still let me dream)? Sancho? Hakimi? Ansu Fati? Joao Felix?
They all are amazing talents but we can't know if they will be the top scorer of the decade, right now its easily Mbappe.
除了显而易见的选择姆巴佩……我不知道耶，倒是有几个候选者，但这里面没有谁像是进球机器的，也许是拉什福德？亚布拉罕？维尔纳？阿森西奥（是是是我还是相信他的，就让我梦一会）？桑乔？哈基米？法蒂？费利克斯？他们都是天才，但没法知道他们能否成为下一个十年的得分王，就目前而言还是选姆巴佩吧。
[–]【法特海德拉巴德】rahulrossi 12 points 19 hours ago
Harvey Eliot
哈维-埃利奥特
[–]【丹麦】Pek-Man 12 points 18 hours ago
Mbappé is obviously a good bet, but I sort of want to say Lautaro.
姆巴佩显然值得一赌，但我倒是想提名劳塔罗。
[–]【米德尔斯堡】Bored-To-Reddit 16 points 16 hours ago
Said to my workmate today that I doubt I'll see players on the level of Messi and Ronaldo ever again in my lifetime.
He tried to argue that Mbappe might be next in line, then I said remember when Messi scored 91 goals in a calendar year. Ninety... one... goals...
Not a knock against Mbappe, sure he'll have a great career but it's hard to envision anyone achieving anything close to what Messi and Ronaldo have.
今天跟我同事聊天的时候，我说我怀疑这辈子再也看不到任何其他球员能达到梅西和C罗的高度了。
他还试图跟我争辩说姆巴佩大概就是下一个，然后我说梅西曾经在一个自然年内打进91球，我至尽还记得。九……十……一……个……球……
不是打击姆巴佩，我肯定他会有一个伟大的足球生涯，但很难想象还能有谁可以接近梅西和C罗的水平了。
[–]【切尔西】lord_bomsy 29 points 17 hours ago
One of the biggest regrets i have is not seeing both of them play live
人生最大的憾事之一就是从未亲临现场看他们踢球
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